tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post443734863616950783..comments2023-10-27T03:41:13.171-07:00Comments on Warning Signs: The Slow Death of the Environmental MovementAlan Carubahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10901162110385985193noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-46898209486742167982010-10-19T14:31:30.864-07:002010-10-19T14:31:30.864-07:00Not quite on-topic, perhaps, but a ray of hope? IK...Not quite on-topic, perhaps, but a ray of hope? IK Energy Secretary Chris Huhne, who in the past demonised nuclear and "fossil fuel" energy, has taken a lppk at actual data - and proposed killing some massive tidal-power projects. funding eight new (or replacement) nuclear plants, and said fossil-fuell energy should at the very least be looked at again. <br /> <br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321492/Chris-Huhne-backs-new-nuclear-plants-Severn-Barrage-scrapped.html <br /> --- <br />He said: 'I'm fed up with the stand-off between advocates of renewables and of nuclear which means we have neither.<br /><br />'We urgently need investment in new and diverse energy sources to power the UK.<br /><br />'We'll need renewables, new nuclear, fossil fuels with carbon capture and storage, and the cables to hook them all up to the Grid as a large slice of our current generating capacity shuts down."John Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801684602403824157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-46723186439996788142010-10-19T10:39:52.499-07:002010-10-19T10:39:52.499-07:00Texmom-- its easier to look at this as a larger na...Texmom-- its easier to look at this as a larger natural system rather that the thoughts of any one individual. The environmental movement is an adaptive system sensitive to initial conditions. It has moved over time in a predicted direction but does not do so in a perfectly linear fashion. Hundreds of ideas and campaigns have been spun off to see what resonates in the public dialog and then used in the marketing of the ideology. Those that don't work are discarded or used to reset the center. Extreme views are often an effective tactic-- it redefines politically what is considered middle of the road.<br /><br /> The problems we face today are a result of the proponents of the anti capitalist views espoused by the philosophies of Marcuse and Commoner organizing the First Earth in 1970 and the and the political power it gained that was then used shaping the new regulatory agency that would enforce its beliefs-- EPA. It is a belief system that says the environment must be protected against capitalist economic excess. As Commoner said- there is no reason to undertake conservation type projects (rebuilding wetlands, improving habitat etc) until the rapacious consumption is stopped. The philosophy and culture of a regulatory agency are set the day it begins. We are simply seeing the unfolding events of a regulatory system expanding in scope and power. Conservationists and Preservations still have not fully understood they were a dead ideology by Earth Day 1970's last speaker.<br /><br />How that power was accumulated, the role of rent seeking and the alliances that were built are whats really important if one wants to find a way to alter this system- but way beyond this scope.<br /> <br /> Remember one thing-- the real power over our economy and our way of life now rests in an unelected regulator and their quasi- governmental NGO agents. An Agency that has grown so powerful it can threaten Congress over CO2 regulations. Such power does not change on an election day-- unless those we elect are pushed to rein it in. <br />The environmental movement as I posted earlier could be about no other subject than who we are, what we want and what we may have. The declared mission now for EPA is achieving Environmental Justice. You may find it ain't easy being Green.<br /><br />I write this as someone who spent their entire professional career working to improve our environment. EPA and the environmental movement however stopped being what so many millions hoped for on that first Earth a long time ago. Of late I am trying to understand how such a good idea went so terribly wrong and what we might do to correct it.Pat Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06532682825003697124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-40186920060756130442010-10-19T09:41:14.641-07:002010-10-19T09:41:14.641-07:00Kelly J--
The population issue is still a topic th...Kelly J--<br />The population issue is still a topic that causes battles on the left. The original ZPG movment was suppressed in the 1970s because if the logic was followed it allowed blame to be apportioned to the rapidly increasing populations of the 3rd world. The Sierra Club nearly tore itself apart over this issue several times-including recently.<br /><br /><br />The problem for them is they sell a zero sum world-- and they just can't find an answer to explain why the West's "footprint" is wrong given we have stabilized our population while the 3rd world has tripled theirs and find a way to say that is OK.<br /><br />This is the argument they fear- if you force a country to limited resources and zero sum- then that country must control immigration or it sets its citizens on a spiraling downward path.<br /><br />Holdren and others argued that the 3rd world could not be allowed to achieve US standards or we would strip the earth bare. Logic again-- don't let immigrants into the US because they rapidly concert to our excessive level of consumption. But an anti immigration policy splits their alliances. And they have no answer for it other than trying to push the logical disconnect to the side.<br /><br />I don't believe in a zero sum world and am one that thinks population growth declines with improved standards of living. However population growth issues as it relates to zero sum is an excellent tool to rattle the cage and force a focus on the logical impossibility they demand.Pat Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06532682825003697124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-5407805083687341342010-10-19T07:02:41.062-07:002010-10-19T07:02:41.062-07:00It should be dying a slow death, but is it really?...It should be dying a slow death, but is it really? They are a massive network (see WiserEarth.com ) and continue to work hard to indoctrinate our youth, so they will have a much bigger army of wackos in another ten years.BF Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11267740328986931453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-31259420387566553792010-10-19T05:30:44.698-07:002010-10-19T05:30:44.698-07:00@KellyJ. NO! We do not want to reduce the human po...@KellyJ. NO! We do not want to reduce the human population. That's immoral. I surely hope you didn't mean the Greens lack the guts to do this. If so, that makes you one of them. And not welcome here.Alan Carubahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10901162110385985193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-46086515683930162722010-10-18T21:13:56.150-07:002010-10-18T21:13:56.150-07:00All those dreadful folk hate human beings and want...All those dreadful folk hate human beings and want the planet rid of humans. They obviously hate themselves, and are taking that hate out on all others. That, as you have observed, Alan, is what they actually say.<br /><br />Natural forces have caused and will cause far more destruction of "the planet" than humans ever could for the foreseeable future.LarryOldtimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10811006386363706079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-63456138154693413472010-10-18T18:27:16.697-07:002010-10-18T18:27:16.697-07:00Note all of these Enviro-whacks are all about redu...Note all of these Enviro-whacks are all about reducing Earths human population...yet not one of them has the testiculer fortitude to practice what they preach.KellyJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01342332734935313737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-73453179068410106052010-10-18T12:18:24.568-07:002010-10-18T12:18:24.568-07:00@Pat: Good point!@Pat: Good point!Alan Carubahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10901162110385985193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196554259323465442.post-29180169695541805572010-10-18T11:14:36.012-07:002010-10-18T11:14:36.012-07:00There were 3 movements prior to Earth Day. Conserv...There were 3 movements prior to Earth Day. Conservationists, Preservationists whose attention centered on nature and the progressive's attention centered on health issues. <br /><br />Perhaps more important was the fact conservation and preservation were already a battleground of socialism versus capitalism by the 1930s.<br /><br />There was simply no way our view of the environment in which we live and how we are to live in it could have avoided becoming a proxy for political ideology.Pat Moffitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06532682825003697124noreply@blogger.com